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 Post subject: Atheism: An Irrational Worldview? Pt 1 || Subboor
PostPosted: 21 May 2017, 17:50 
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Atheism: An Irrational Worldview? Pt 1 || Subboor & Rob

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VU9suimNDOo



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 Post subject: Re: Atheism: An Irrational Worldview? Pt 1 || Subboor
PostPosted: 26 May 2017, 17:21 
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lycanthrope wrote:
Atheism: An Irrational Worldview? Pt 1 || Subboor & Rob

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VU9suimNDOo

"I believe in God because it feels right."
"It's an instinct."
"Atheism is an acquired position."
"Atheists don't understand science."
"Origin of reason"

I disagree. We are all born knowing nothing of it. Atheists. It's religion is acquired. Which brand is largely a matter of geography.
India is a good example with Hinduism, Islam, and Christianity being the major sectors.



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 Post subject: Re: Atheism: An Irrational Worldview? Pt 1 || Subboor
PostPosted: 29 May 2017, 20:08 
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Religion today traverses national boundaries more than ever before. Most religions are universalist, as such. The belief in one God is as strong as ever and does not challenge the limitations of science. Why should it? Islam, in particular, is compatible with many scientific achievements.

As an atheist, you use science as a means of bashing religion. This is insincere and dishonest. Many scientists have accepted divine inspiration in their work, including the great physicist Max Planck.

You may disagree as much as you like. It does not change the faith of the believer.



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 Post subject: Re: Atheism: An Irrational Worldview? Pt 1 || Subboor
PostPosted: 31 May 2017, 12:20 
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EuropeanAction wrote:
Religion today traverses national boundaries more than ever before. Most religions are universalist, as such. The belief in one God is as strong as ever and does not challenge the limitations of science. Why should it? Islam, in particular, is compatible with many scientific achievements.

As an atheist, you use science as a means of bashing religion. This is insincere and dishonest. Many scientists have accepted divine inspiration in their work, including the great physicist Max Planck.

You may disagree as much as you like. It does not change the faith of the believer.

I'm not seeking to change the faith of any believer. And, in many/most cases, nigh on impossible. I am simply stating my point of view with no dishonesty involved. That you disagree with it goes without saying.

A couple of points that run counter to uours.
The belief in one god is nit applicable to Hinduism, for example, is incorrect. It one of the four mjor religions of the world.
There many great scients who have made fundamental contributions who are atheists. Particularly in the fields of quantum mechanics and particle physics.



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 Post subject: Re: Atheism: An Irrational Worldview? Pt 1 || Subboor
PostPosted: 31 May 2017, 13:12 
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Hinduism is a pagan religion, involving an entire pantheon of gods. As such, I do not include it because it does not subscribe to monotheism.

I usually refer to the Abrahamic tradition, which are the three religions, Judaism, Christianity and Islam. All of them reject idolatry with the exception of the Roman Catholic church.

Your posts often become tedious because you are barking up the wrong tree here.

I am concerned here with the faithful as opposed to atheists. It is pointless for a religious man to debate with an atheist ... the equivalent of talking to a brick wall.



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 Post subject: Re: Atheism: An Irrational Worldview? Pt 1 || Subboor
PostPosted: 31 May 2017, 17:36 
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EuropeanAction wrote:
Hinduism is a pagan religion, involving an entire pantheon of gods. As such, I do not include it because it does not subscribe to monotheism.

I usually refer to the Abrahamic tradition, which are the three religions, Judaism, Christianity and Islam. All of them reject idolatry with the exception of the Roman Catholic church.

Your posts often become tedious because you are barking up the wrong tree here.

I am concerned here with the faithful as opposed to atheists. It is pointless for a religious man to debate with an atheist ... the equivalent of talking to a brick wall.

The title of the thread is "Atheism: An Irrational Worldview? Pt 1 || Subboor".
It would seem, therefore, that the topic is atheism. Isn't that the tree we should be barking up instead of failing to address the topic or just dismissing it?

And maybe some of the points raised in the article for which the OP provided a link instead of dismissing them?

Let's look just a couple to keep things simple.

"Atheism is an acquired position."
"Atheists don't understand science."

Hinduism, which is defined as:
"From a Western lexical standpoint, Hinduism like other faiths is appropriately referred to as a religion. "
You obviously don't agree. The more important point is that you are far more likely to grow up a Hindu in India than China. The two largest countries in the world.That's what I mean about the faith you acquire is largely geographical. Where you were born and what religion you then acquired is largely what your society considered to be the "right" one.
Inuit are hardly likely to be hard shell Baptists.
Newborns know nothing. Thus have no belief in any religion they may later acquire They are born atheistic.

Atheists don't understand stand??
Check out a list of famous atheist scientists.
I think you'll find that that claim really doesn't hold water. Not remotely.



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 Post subject: Re: Atheism: An Irrational Worldview? Pt 1 || Subboor
PostPosted: 31 May 2017, 17:47 
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In a previous age, populations remained relatively static. In fact, a lot of people never left their village throughout their lives. Well, all that has changed.

Islam was not restricted to the Arabian peninsular but extended its influence from Spain up to China. Its influence has not been so limited as you suggest. It is now a truly global religion with converts all around the world.

No one is born anything. We are born innocent without sin. All of these later things are acquired through awareness of our surroundings. Religion is a human awareness of something greater than all of us. It is as simple as that.



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 Post subject: Re: Atheism: An Irrational Worldview? Pt 1 || Subboor
PostPosted: 31 May 2017, 20:06 
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EuropeanAction wrote:

Islam was not restricted to the Arabian peninsular but extended its influence from Spain up to China. Its influence has not been so limited as you suggest. It is now a truly global religion with converts all around the world.

No one is born anything. We are born innocent without sin. All of these later things are acquired through awareness of our surroundings. Religion is a human awareness of something greater than all of us. It is as simple as that.


Two points if I may.

I didn't suggest that Islam hasn't spread and become global. There are Muslims in China. Of the total of about 130 different religions, the Muslim religion is ranked at about 111. Or 2% of those who hold religious beliefs.

Second point.
I agree. We are all born innocent. Knowing nothing. And thus no belief in any deity. To quote you, all of these later things are acquired through awareness of our surroundings - the very point I was making.



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 Post subject: Re: Atheism: An Irrational Worldview? Pt 1 || Subboor
PostPosted: 31 May 2017, 20:40 
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Besoeker wrote:
Second point.
I agree. We are all born innocent. Knowing nothing. And thus no belief in any deity. To quote you, all of these later things are acquired through awareness of our surroundings - the very point I was making.


Thus, no one is born an atheist or any other belief system. We are born with a blank sheet.

I know that atheism is a conscious mind set. It opposes belief in God. As such. no one is born with that particular attitude.

It is more accurate to say the new-born are neither atheistic nor of a religious faith system. These come later.



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 Post subject: Re: Atheism: An Irrational Worldview? Pt 1 || Subboor
PostPosted: 31 May 2017, 21:15 
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EuropeanAction wrote:
Besoeker wrote:
Second point.
I agree. We are all born innocent. Knowing nothing. And thus no belief in any deity. To quote you, all of these later things are acquired through awareness of our surroundings - the very point I was making.


Thus, no one is born an atheist or any other belief system. We are born with a blank sheet.

I know that atheism is a conscious mind set. It opposes belief in God. As such. no one is born with that particular attitude.

It is more accurate to say the new-born are neither atheistic nor of a religious faith system. These come later.


Again, a couple or three points.
Atheism is an absence of a belief in any theistic entity. I do not oppose anyone's faith or belief in a god. I already made that point is this very thread:
"I'm not seeking to change the faith of any believer."
The point about the newborn is that he/shee comes with a clean sheet. No belief in any theistic entity. The atheist positiion. What faith or religion they come to embrace later - acquired through awareness of our surroundings as you put it. Place, people, social interactions, and teachings. It is acquired. I think we are agreeing on that.



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 Post subject: Re: Atheism: An Irrational Worldview? Pt 1 || Subboor
PostPosted: 01 Jun 2017, 09:39 
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You have attempted this trick countless times on here and it does not work. Atheism is a conscious view that belief in God is a delusion. The new-born have no conscious views of the world and can not be described as such.

A clean sheet means the new-born is neither this nor that in terms of beliefs. Atheism being a rejection of belief in God, one would need to be exposed to such a belief in order to reject it.

I know you are "not seeking to change the faith of any believer" because you know this would be impossible. Faith is stronger than your repetitive semantic tricks. So stop while you are ahead.

The subject is now closed for the simple reason we have been here many times with your attempts at claiming babies are atheists becoming more laughable each time you make the claim. A clean sheet means nothing on it ... neither atheist nor believer. These come later as the intellect develops and can reason.



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 Post subject: Re: Atheism: An Irrational Worldview? Pt 1 || Subboor
PostPosted: 01 Jun 2017, 10:09 
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It may be apocryphal but Albert Einstein was said to be the author of the phrase, "evil is simply the absence of God".

Some say God was substituted for good but I like the former quote.

I regard atheism as an evil because it means the absence of God. Ergo, you are evil as you clearly subscribe to the atheist mind set.

The fact that you ascribe atheism to the perfectly innocent new-born is the ultimate obscenity.



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 Post subject: Re: Atheism: An Irrational Worldview? Pt 1 || Subboor
PostPosted: 01 Jun 2017, 13:16 
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EuropeanAction wrote:
You have attempted this trick countless times on here and it does not work. Atheism is a conscious view that belief in God is a delusion. The new-born have no conscious views of the world and can not be described as such.

A clean sheet means the new-born is neither this nor that in terms of beliefs. Atheism being a rejection of belief in God, one would need to be exposed to such a belief in order to reject it.

It's an absence of belief. Without theism. Not a rejection of it. You can't reject something if you had no belief in it in the first place.
Theism is learned or taught - you don't start out that way. What version of theism you embrace/acquire is, I said, often a matter where you have the fortune to have been rought up - the social and cultural norms of that place.

You call it a trick. It isn't. It's a view based on logic, reason, and observation. Fine that you choose to reject it doesn't invalidate the logic, reason, and observation.



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 Post subject: Re: Atheism: An Irrational Worldview? Pt 1 || Subboor
PostPosted: 01 Jun 2017, 21:29 
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You are irrational. Being without belief in God as a new-born comes with a blank sheet. Not atheism.
Atheism is a conscious view which a new-born can not reason.
You are an atheist as a matter of choice, a choice which a baby can not grasp.
I will repeat, a baby may be unaware of God but God is very much aware of His creation. People come to God by various ways. Many have religion taught through cultural upbringing while others turn to God later through a personal experience.
How can a baby be an atheist when that child is created by God? Only someone with a Godless warped mind like yours would make such an irrational claim.



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 Post subject: Re: Atheism: An Irrational Worldview? Pt 1 || Subboor
PostPosted: 01 Jun 2017, 22:07 
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EuropeanAction wrote:
You are irrational. Being without belief in God as a new-born comes with a blank sheet. Not atheism.
Atheism is a conscious view which a new-born can not reason.
You are an atheist as a matter of choice, a choice which a baby can not grasp.
I will repeat, a baby may be unaware of God but God is very much aware of His creation. People come to God by various ways. Many have religion taught through cultural upbringing while others turn to God later through a personal experience.
How can a baby be an atheist when that child is created by God? Only someone with a Godless warped mind like yours would make such an irrational claim.


A Godless warped mind, eh?
It would be a refreshing change if we could have a discussion without the personal insults. I live in hope.
You are asserting that the child is created by God. Is that rational?



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 Post subject: Re: Atheism: An Irrational Worldview? Pt 1 || Subboor
PostPosted: 01 Jun 2017, 22:25 
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I believe God is the Creator. The Creator of all things. It is an essential part of my faith. I know you reject this because you just said so. Frankly, I don't care what you think of that. There can be no basis for a discussion between us on the subject of theology because, for one thing, you have previously attacked religion as superstitious mumbo jumbo or claptrap. And you judge me for being insulting? You blaspheme. I do not have to prove anything to you for the simple reaon that religious faith rises above your criticism of it. Faith is its own evidence. It is a witness to God and all His creation. Nothing you say can change that.



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 Post subject: Re: Atheism: An Irrational Worldview? Pt 1 || Subboor
PostPosted: 02 Jun 2017, 08:31 
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Besoeker wrote:
Fine that you choose to reject it doesn't invalidate the logic, reason, and observation.


When I reject your argument, it becomes invalidated. Your reasoning is flawed. That is my observation.



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 Post subject: Re: Atheism: An Irrational Worldview? Pt 1 || Subboor
PostPosted: 02 Jun 2017, 08:38 
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That is neither reasoning nor reasonable.



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 Post subject: Re: Atheism: An Irrational Worldview? Pt 1 || Subboor
PostPosted: 02 Jun 2017, 08:49 
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I will tell you why your reasoning is flawed and it is based on our opposing positions. I argue from the standpoint of being a believer in God while you argue from the standpoint of opposing my beliefs. Any of your atheistic reasoning can not be sustained against my faith. My faith is impenetrable but you seem incapable of understanding this because you are unreasonable. If you were reasonable you would see the utter pointlessness of your position.
To anyone who holds to a faith, you are irrational because you seem to think banging your atheistic drum will make the walls of faith fall down. It never has and it never will do.
If I say God is real to me then there is little to say on the matter. The fact that you are using this thread to bang your atheistic drum to no avail suggests you are very desperate to "prove" God does not exist. Let me tell you, God created you but it must have been in the form of a joke.



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 Post subject: Re: Atheism: An Irrational Worldview? Pt 1 || Subboor
PostPosted: 02 Jun 2017, 13:19 
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I don't oppose your beliefs. I have said more than once on this very thread that I don't oppose anyone's bebelief. But, I'll say it once more so that this misturdendsting can be put to bed - I don't oppose anone's faith or belief.
I am quite well aware that your faith is impenatrable. I have already said so, again on this very thread.
I have no illusions that "banging my atheistic drum" as you put it will will make the walls of faith fall down.
You helieve that your God exists. I have no such belief. Why would I seek to disprove an entity in which I have an absence of belief. That's jut not logical.

You say God created me. I say procreation created me.



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