It is currently 20 Jul 2017, 18:27



Welcome
Welcome to europeanpolitics

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. In addition, registered members also see less advertisements. Registration is fast, simple, and absolutely free, so please, join our community today!





 Page 1 of 2 [ 27 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: British Imperialism
PostPosted: 04 Jul 2017, 18:10 
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: 27 Jan 2013, 08:46
Posts: 3020
Location: Ramsgate
Has thanked: 53 time
Have thanks: 11 time
The British Empire was to last about 250 years during which time a large part of the world was plundered and its inhabitants treated worse than dogs.



_________________
www.europeanaction.com
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: British Imperialism
PostPosted: 04 Jul 2017, 19:05 
User avatar

Joined: 24 Feb 2014, 22:06
Posts: 1270
Location: up his own arse
Has thanked: 1 time
Have thanks: 1 time
EuropeanAction wrote:
The British Empire was to last about 250 years during which time a large part of the world was plundered and its inhabitants treated worse than dogs.

No disagreement with that. Some terrible things happened. The Black Hole of Calcutta for example.
But it is not unique. We did some pretty awful things within our shore both prior to and since the British Empire existed.

<Thank you for that but the subject of the thread is "British Imperialism", so stick to that. Admin>



_________________
"Might I suggest that you call me on 01582 618518?"
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: British Imperialism
PostPosted: 05 Jul 2017, 08:26 
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: 27 Jan 2013, 08:46
Posts: 3020
Location: Ramsgate
Has thanked: 53 time
Have thanks: 11 time
Five of the Worst Atrocities Carried Out By the British Empire

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/worst-atrocities-british-empire-amritsar-boer-war-concentration-camp-mau-mau-a6821756.html

At its height in 1922, the British empire governed a fifth of the world's population and a quarter of the world's total land area. 
Although the proponents of Empire say it brought various economic developments to parts of the world it controlled, critics point to massacres, famines and the use of concentration camps by the British Empire.

The British Suffer 'Historical Amnesia'

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/shashi-tharoor-britain-india-suffer-historical-amnesia-over-atrocities-of-their-former-empire-says-a7612086.html

Britons suffer “historical amnesia” over the atrocities and plunder committed by their empire, Indian MP and author Shashi Tharoor has said.
Dr Tharoor said the British educational system failed to tell the real story of empire and claimed Britain would have to accept Indian workers and students freely moving across its borders if it wanted to sell its goods in Indian markets following Brexit.



_________________
www.europeanaction.com
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: British Imperialism
PostPosted: 05 Jul 2017, 14:11 
User avatar

Joined: 24 Feb 2014, 22:06
Posts: 1270
Location: up his own arse
Has thanked: 1 time
Have thanks: 1 time
If you want to quantify/compare. how bad something is or was you need a yardstick



_________________
"Might I suggest that you call me on 01582 618518?"
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: British Imperialism
PostPosted: 05 Jul 2017, 14:29 
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: 27 Jan 2013, 08:46
Posts: 3020
Location: Ramsgate
Has thanked: 53 time
Have thanks: 11 time
The Black Hole of Calcutta is not a comparison. A totally different event to that perpetrated by the British in India. The subject is British imperialism, as I have already pointed out to you.

The Black Hole of Calcutta incident refers to forty three British soldiers and their Indian comrades in arms who perished in the Fort William brig, June 20, 1756.

During the Amritsar massacre in 1919, the casualty number estimated by the Indian National Congress was more than 1,500 injured, with approximately 1,000 dead.



_________________
www.europeanaction.com
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: British Imperialism
PostPosted: 05 Jul 2017, 14:39 
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: 27 Jan 2013, 08:46
Posts: 3020
Location: Ramsgate
Has thanked: 53 time
Have thanks: 11 time
Jallianwala Bagh massacre ... no comparisons

YouTube video https://youtu.be/XE9_zB8k_lk

Image
Colonel Reginald Dyer

The Jallianwala Bagh massacre, also known as the Amritsar massacre, took place on 13 April 1919 when a crowd of nonviolent protesters, along with Baishakhi pilgrims, who had gathered in Jallianwala Bagh, Amritsar, Punjab, were fired upon by troops of the British Indian Army under the command of Colonel Reginald Dyer. The civilians, in the majority Sikhs, had assembled to participate in the annual Baisakhi celebrations, a religious and cultural festival for Punjabi people. Coming from outside the city, they may have been unaware of the imposition of martial law.

The Jallianwalla Bagh is a public garden of 6 to 7 acres (28,000 m2), walled on all sides with five entrances. To enter, troops first blocked the entry by a tank and locked the exit. On Dyer's orders, his troops fired on the crowd for ten minutes, directing their bullets largely towards the few open gates through which people were trying to flee. The British government released figures stating 379 dead and 1,200 wounded. Other sources place the number of dead at well over 1,000. This "brutality stunned the entire nation", resulting in a "wrenching loss of faith" of the general public in the intentions of the UK. The ineffective inquiry and the initial accolades for Dyer by the House of Lords fuelled widespread anger, leading to the Non-cooperation Movement of 1920–22.

On Sunday, 13 April 1919, Dyer was convinced of a major insurrection and he banned all meetings; however this notice was not widely disseminated. That was the day of Baisakhi, the main Sikh festival, and many villagers had gathered in the Bagh. On hearing that a meeting had assembled at Jallianwala Bagh, Dyer went with fifty Gurkha troops to a raised bank and ordered them to shoot at the crowd. Dyer continued the firing for about ten minutes, until the ammunition supply was almost exhausted. Dyer stated that 1,650 rounds had been fired, a number apparently derived by counting empty cartridge cases picked up by the troops. Official British Indian sources gave a figure of 379 identified dead, with approximately 1,100 wounded. The casualty number estimated by the Indian National Congress was more than 1,500 injured, with approximately 1,000 dead.

Dyer was initially lauded by conservative forces in the empire, but in July 1920 he was censured and forced to retire by the House of Commons. Most sickeningly, He became a celebrated hero in the UK among most of the people connected to the British Raj, for example, the House of Lords, but unpopular in the House of Commons, which voted against Dyer twice. The massacre caused a re-evaluation of the army's role, in which the new policy became minimum force. The army was retrained and developed less violent tactics for crowd control. Some historians consider the episode a decisive step towards the end of British rule in India.



_________________
www.europeanaction.com
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: British Imperialism
PostPosted: 05 Jul 2017, 16:29 
User avatar

Joined: 24 Feb 2014, 22:06
Posts: 1270
Location: up his own arse
Has thanked: 1 time
Have thanks: 1 time
You still need a yardstick, dickhead.

Image



_________________
"Might I suggest that you call me on 01582 618518?"
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: British Imperialism
PostPosted: 05 Jul 2017, 16:45 
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: 27 Jan 2013, 08:46
Posts: 3020
Location: Ramsgate
Has thanked: 53 time
Have thanks: 11 time
Rubbish. I treat each incident on its own merit. You are simply being disruptive without any meaningful input.

For example, the Jallianwala Bagh massacre was a decisive step towards the end of the British Empire. The Black Hole of Calcutta incident was not.



_________________
www.europeanaction.com
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: British Imperialism
PostPosted: 05 Jul 2017, 17:07 
User avatar

Joined: 24 Feb 2014, 22:06
Posts: 1270
Location: up his own arse
Has thanked: 1 time
Have thanks: 1 time
You may think so but, with all the respet due............on the merit or otherwise.............
How do you compare scorched earth policies with Boers treatment in concentration camps.



_________________
"Might I suggest that you call me on 01582 618518?"
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: British Imperialism
PostPosted: 05 Jul 2017, 17:17 
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: 27 Jan 2013, 08:46
Posts: 3020
Location: Ramsgate
Has thanked: 53 time
Have thanks: 11 time
I do not draw comparisons because I treat each episode or incident on its own merits. How many times do I have to tell you this?

The treatment of the Dutch Boer women and children was a filthy war crime. The British tied pregnant Boer women to cannons and blew them to pieces. It is the reason the Afrikaners hated the English. It was the British who invented the concentration camp long before the Nazis. Having said that, all atrocities committed by the British Empire are given equal consideration and treated with equal contempt. The differences are simply a matter of degree.


Concentration Camps for Boers

Image

We all now know about the horrors of concentration camps, but during the time of Boer Wars, rounding up tens of thousands of innocent people and detaining them in camps seemed like a stroke of genius. The British needed the South African populace under control and had the means and manpower to detain them. What could possibly go wrong?
Try just about everything. Pitched under the white hot African sun and crawling with flies, the camps were overcrowded, underequipped, and lethally prone to disease outbreaks. Food supplies were virtually non-existent, and the callous guards would dock people’s meagre rations for the slightest perceived offense. The result: sickness and death spread like wildfire, killing women by the thousands and children by the tens of thousands. In a single year, 10 percent of the entire Boer population died in the British camps—a figure that gets even worse when you realize it includes 22,000 children.
But the atrocity didn’t stop there. While rounding up the Boers, the British also decided to detain any black Africans they encountered, 20,000 of whom were worked to death in slave labour camps. All told, British policy in the war killed 48,000 civilians. That’s 18,000 more than the number of soldiers lost on both sides.



_________________
www.europeanaction.com
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: British Imperialism
PostPosted: 05 Jul 2017, 17:57 
User avatar

Joined: 24 Feb 2014, 22:06
Posts: 1270
Location: up his own arse
Has thanked: 1 time
Have thanks: 1 time
Horrible inhuman events have taken place throughout history. You just don't get my point. No big deal.



_________________
"Might I suggest that you call me on 01582 618518?"
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: British Imperialism
PostPosted: 05 Jul 2017, 18:23 
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: 27 Jan 2013, 08:46
Posts: 3020
Location: Ramsgate
Has thanked: 53 time
Have thanks: 11 time
You have a big problem with articulating and explaining yourself. So you revert to being "mysterious" or cryptic. The thing is, you have not made any point because you do not have one. The thing about the yardstick is pure nonsense. We are not discussing "horrible inhuman events that have taken place throughout history". We are discussing British imperialism. The clue is in the title of the thread. Being a right wing reactionary who does not like "left leaning" ideas, you simply and obviously do not like truth in British history. Well, chum, there's going to be a lot more of it.



_________________
www.europeanaction.com
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: British Imperialism
PostPosted: 05 Jul 2017, 18:38 
User avatar

Joined: 24 Feb 2014, 22:06
Posts: 1270
Location: up his own arse
Has thanked: 1 time
Have thanks: 1 time
OK. You win if that's what floats your boat.



_________________
"Might I suggest that you call me on 01582 618518?"
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: British Imperialism
PostPosted: 06 Jul 2017, 05:00 
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: 27 Jan 2013, 08:46
Posts: 3020
Location: Ramsgate
Has thanked: 53 time
Have thanks: 11 time
You have met your match but you are your own worst enemy.



_________________
www.europeanaction.com
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: British Imperialism
PostPosted: 06 Jul 2017, 10:53 
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: 27 Jan 2013, 08:46
Posts: 3020
Location: Ramsgate
Has thanked: 53 time
Have thanks: 11 time
How Britain denies its holocausts

http://www.monbiot.com/2005/12/27/how-britain-denies-its-holocausts/

In his book Late Victorian Holocausts, published in 2001, Mike Davis tells the story of the famines which killed between 12 and 29 million Indians. These people were, he demonstrates, murdered by British state policy.

When an El Nino drought destituted the farmers of the Deccan plateau in 1876 there was a net surplus of rice and wheat in India. But the viceroy, Lord Lytton, insisted that nothing should prevent its export to England. In 1877 and 1878, at height of the famine, grain merchants exported a record 6.4 million hundredweight of wheat. As the peasants began to starve, government officials were ordered “to discourage relief works in every possible way”.

The Anti-Charitable Contributions Act of 1877 prohibited “at the pain of imprisonment private relief donations that potentially interfered with the market fixing of grain prices.” The only relief permitted in most districts was hard labour, from which anyone in an advanced state of starvation was turned away. Within the labour camps, the workers were given less food than the inmates of Buchenwald. In 1877, monthly mortality in the camps equated to an annual death rate of 94%.

As millions died, the imperial government launched “a militarized campaign to collect the tax arrears accumulated during the drought.” The money, which ruined those who might otherwise have survived the famine, was used by Lytton to fund his war in Afghanistan. Even in places which had produced a crop surplus, the government’s export policies, like Stalin’s in the Ukraine, manufactured hunger. In the North-western provinces, Oud and the Punjab, which had brought in record harvests in the preceding three years, at least 1.25m died.

Still think the British Empire was something to be lauded?

Late Victorian Holocausts
El Niño Famines and the Making of the Third World
by Mike Davis


https://www.versobooks.com/books/2311-late-victorian-holocausts

Examining a series of El Niño-induced droughts and the famines that they spawned around the globe in the last third of the 19th century, Mike Davis discloses the intimate, baleful relationship between imperial arrogance and natural incident that combined to produce some of the worst tragedies in human history.

Late Victorian Holocausts focuses on three zones of drought and subsequent famine: India, Northern China; and Northeastern Brazil. All were affected by the same global climatic factors that caused massive crop failures, and all experienced brutal famines that decimated local populations. But the effects of drought were magnified in each case because of singularly destructive policies promulgated by different ruling elites.

Davis argues that the seeds of underdevelopment in what later became known as the Third World were sown in this era of High Imperialism, as the price for capitalist modernization was paid in the currency of millions of peasants’ lives.

Winner of the World History Association Book Award.



_________________
www.europeanaction.com
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: British Imperialism
PostPosted: 06 Jul 2017, 16:14 
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: 27 Jan 2013, 08:46
Posts: 3020
Location: Ramsgate
Has thanked: 53 time
Have thanks: 11 time
I like Verso books. They are very progressive. I have one on Edward Said and another on How I Stopped Being A Jew by Shlomo Sand. Very daring.



_________________
www.europeanaction.com
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: British Imperialism
PostPosted: 07 Jul 2017, 07:45 
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: 27 Jan 2013, 08:46
Posts: 3020
Location: Ramsgate
Has thanked: 53 time
Have thanks: 11 time
VERSO BOOKS

For example: https://www.versobooks.com/books/1179-britain-s-empire

Britain's Empire
Resistance, Repression and Revolt
by Richard Gott


Image

Contrary to nationalist legend and schoolboy history lessons, the British Empire was not a great civilising power bringing light to the darker corners of the earth. Richard Gott’s magisterial work recounts the empire’s misdeeds from the beginning of the eighteenth century to the Indian Mutiny, spanning the red-patched imperial globe from Ireland to Australia, telling a story of almost continuous colonialist violence. Recounting events from the perspective of the colonised, Gott unearths the all-but-forgotten stories excluded from mainstream British histories

The British Empire was led and controlled by a ruling class that had violent exploitation as its main aim.



_________________
www.europeanaction.com
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: British Imperialism
PostPosted: 12 Jul 2017, 06:48 
User avatar

Joined: 24 Feb 2014, 22:06
Posts: 1270
Location: up his own arse
Has thanked: 1 time
Have thanks: 1 time
EuropeanAction wrote:
You have met your match but you are your own worst enemy.

Really? If you were a match you wouldn't need to keep deleting my posts.



_________________
"Might I suggest that you call me on 01582 618518?"
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: British Imperialism
PostPosted: 12 Jul 2017, 14:20 
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: 27 Jan 2013, 08:46
Posts: 3020
Location: Ramsgate
Has thanked: 53 time
Have thanks: 11 time
Quite often your posts are off topic or petty and personal, as your last one is. You are incapable of discussing issues and keeping to the subject of a thread. But then you knew that.

Further posts that do not address the subject of British imperialism will be deleted. You've definitely met your match, matey.



_________________
www.europeanaction.com
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: British Imperialism
PostPosted: 12 Jul 2017, 21:13 
User avatar

Joined: 24 Feb 2014, 22:06
Posts: 1270
Location: up his own arse
Has thanked: 1 time
Have thanks: 1 time
EuropeanAction wrote:
I do not draw comparisons because I treat each episode or incident on its own merits. How many times do I have to tell you this?

The treatment of the Dutch Boer women and children was a filthy war crime. The British tied pregnant Boer women to cannons and blew them to pieces. It is the reason the Afrikaners hated the English. It was the British who invented the concentration camp long before the Nazis. Having said that, all atrocities committed by the British Empire are given equal consideration and treated with equal contempt. The differences are simply a matter of degree.


If, as you say, the difference is only a matter of degree you are already drawing a comparison, measuring the degree of atrocity. You can't do that without .......some means of measurement.
On what would you base that? The number of victims? The degree of cruelty, humiliation. torture methods, starvation............the list goes on.

How, for example, would you compare the Boer concentration camps and the partitioning of India?
The number of fatalities, the manner in which they lost their lives? The accepted practices in history?
Crucified, burned at the stake, keel hauled, or hung drawn, and quartered.

We humans seem to have had a colourful imagination when it came to inflicting death and cruelty on our fellow humans.
I abhor violence and wars. I know I have mentioned before that I don't agree with capital punishment.



_________________
"Might I suggest that you call me on 01582 618518?"
Offline
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
 Page 1 of 2 [ 27 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  


suspicion-preferred