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 Post subject: Re: Japanese power plant
PostPosted: 22 Apr 2017, 14:44 
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Besoeker wrote:
EuropeanAction wrote:
Public ownership is the same as nationalisation.
Yes. But who will actually run the businesses? Make the stragetic decisions?


Experts appointed by the state, of course. I have long believed that a second chamber should be composed of scientists and those from the arts. People who have contributed to society in a big way ... unlike "celebrities" and the like. Our role models should be great achievers in science and the arts instead of this trash from the "music" world.

We need to get away from the profit-motive and instil a greater sense of public service. I say this considering that most businesses are based on exploiting the workers in order to make profits for themselves alone. No, I prefer workers' ownership or syndicalism, as it is known. End privatisation and nationalise the banks, as well. Kick out the fat cats without compensation or pensions. Abolish private banking.



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 Post subject: Re: Japanese power plant
PostPosted: 22 Apr 2017, 16:49 
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Besoeker wrote:
EuropeanAction wrote:
Public ownership is the same as nationalisation.
Yes. But who will actually run the businesses? Make the stragetic decisions?


Do you require names? People would be elected on the basis of knowledge and ability.

But why call them "businesses"? They would be state enterprises with a clear agenda and profit would not be one of them.



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 Post subject: Re: Japanese power plant
PostPosted: 22 Apr 2017, 17:30 
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EuropeanAction wrote:
Besoeker wrote:
EuropeanAction wrote:
Public ownership is the same as nationalisation.
Yes. But who will actually run the businesses? Make the stragetic decisions?


Do you require names? People would be elected on the basis of knowledge and ability.

But why call them "businesses"? They would be state enterprises with a clear agenda and profit would not be one of them.

OK. Who would elect them?
And call it an enterprise if you wish. Costs and revenues still need to be considered. Funding is not a bottomless pit. You don't want to buy the most expensive coal whe a lower cost suitable alternative is available.



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 Post subject: Re: Japanese power plant
PostPosted: 22 Apr 2017, 18:41 
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Besoeker wrote:
OK. Who would elect them?
And call it an enterprise if you wish. Costs and revenues still need to be considered. Funding is not a bottomless pit. You don't want to buy the most expensive coal whe a lower cost suitable alternative is available.


Under the state I am describing, there would be a second chamber of qualified and professional people. The representatives of the people in the first chamber would seek consultation with the second chamber and the most experienced and qualified would be asked to produce solutions. The best presentations would come to the fore.

As for funding, the abolition of private banking and an end of the national debt would make the elected state the masters of credit and the supply of money. There would be just sufficient money supplied to keep the wheels of the economy turning without the dangers of an inflation or a deflation. Money would be as it was originally intended ... as a means of exchange only.

So your "bottomless pit" analogy is not the case. It is not a store of wealth but, rather, a working credit system for the purpose of progress.



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 Post subject: Re: Japanese power plant
PostPosted: 22 Apr 2017, 21:12 
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EuropeanAction wrote:
Besoeker wrote:
OK. Who would elect them?
And call it an enterprise if you wish. Costs and revenues still need to be considered. Funding is not a bottomless pit. You don't want to buy the most expensive coal whe a lower cost suitable alternative is available.


Under the state I am describing, there would be a second chamber of qualified and professional people. The representatives of the people in the first chamber would seek consultation with the second chamber and the most experienced and qualified would be asked to produce solutions. The best presentations would come to the fore.

As for funding, the abolition of private banking and an end of the national debt would make the elected state the masters of credit and the supply of money. There would be just sufficient money supplied to keep the wheels of the economy turning without the dangers of an inflation or a deflation. Money would be as it was originally intended ... as a means of exchange only.

So your "bottomless pit" analogy is not the case. It is not a store of wealth but, rather, a working credit system for the purpose of progress.

OK. How wold the representatives of the people be chosen?
And who would select the experts?

I'm not disagreeing with you but I think you would need to flesh out the bones of your suggestion to see how viable it would be.



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 Post subject: Re: Japanese power plant
PostPosted: 24 Apr 2017, 10:22 
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Besoeker wrote:
OK. Who would elect them?

OK. How wold the representatives of the people be chosen?
And who would select the experts?

I'm not disagreeing with you but I think you would need to flesh out the bones of your suggestion to see how viable it would be.


That would not be for me to decide. A constitution would need to be drawn up and made law.

I would get rid of the party political system for a start. Look what it produces. Largely useless and self-serving careerists.

No, a new system is required based entirely on ability and not loyalty to a party. Scientists would play a leading role in this.

The new constitution would ensure the most capable arise for the benefit of all.



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 Post subject: Re: Japanese power plant
PostPosted: 24 Apr 2017, 16:46 
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EuropeanAction wrote:
Besoeker wrote:
OK. Who would elect them?

OK. How wold the representatives of the people be chosen?
And who would select the experts?

I'm not disagreeing with you but I think you would need to flesh out the bones of your suggestion to see how viable it would be.


That would not be for me to decide. A constitution would need to be drawn up and made law.

I would get rid of the party political system for a start. Look what it produces. Largely useless and self-serving careerists.

No, a new system is required based entirely on ability and not loyalty to a party. Scientists would play a leading role in this.

The new constitution would ensure the most capable arise for the benefit of all.


I largely agree with that. The party political system makes MPs have to vote in accordance with party lines rather than what might be best for their constituency. That can't be right.
And why 650 of them most of whom are doing what the whip says.

No formal qualifications are required to become an MP. There are no minimum standards. There are not many professional jobs that pay £70k+ that don't require relevant professional qualifications. But isn't that what we want of our MPs? Professionalism. The skills to do the job without being fettered by party politics. And, as you put it, the most capable (arise) for the benefit of all.



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 Post subject: Re: Japanese power plant
PostPosted: 24 Apr 2017, 18:13 
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We are in agreement.



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 Post subject: Re: Japanese power plant
PostPosted: 25 Apr 2017, 03:53 
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EuropeanAction wrote:
We are in agreement.

Good.

We seem to have wandered a bit off topic. No problem.
My original point was about future energy supplies.
Government policy may decide which route we take. Remove subsidies and it becomes a technical/commercial decision.
Nuclear could provide base load as it does in France with hydro taking up the slack.
Could we emulate that here?



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 Post subject: Re: Japanese power plant
PostPosted: 25 Apr 2017, 07:01 
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We did not go off topic. We wandered a bit but the political aspect is related.
Can we emulate the French example? We have a Tory government bent on selling anything it can get its claws into, leaving everything for "business" to exploit for personal profit. It is the only motification.
The answer would seem to be "no".



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 Post subject: Re: Japanese power plant
PostPosted: 25 Apr 2017, 09:27 
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EuropeanAction wrote:
We did not go off topic. We wandered a bit but the political aspect is related.
Can we emulate the French example? We have a Tory government bent on selling anything it can get its claws into, leaving everything for "business" to exploit for personal profit. It is the only motification.
The answer would seem to be "no".

The go ahead for new nuclear build has been given. Too little, too late in my opinion.



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 Post subject: Re: Japanese power plant
PostPosted: 25 Apr 2017, 10:57 
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Everything seems to be too little, too late. It is in the nature of our political system and the people it produces. They act on things only after heavy pressure is applied ... which is then deemed to be cautionary. It is the behaviour of the spineless.



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 Post subject: Re: Japanese power plant
PostPosted: 25 Apr 2017, 15:01 
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EuropeanAction wrote:
Everything seems to be too little, too late. It is in the nature of our political system and the people it produces. They act on things only after heavy pressure is applied ... which is then deemed to be cautionary. It is the behaviour of the spineless.

It's the behaviour of those who want to get a seat or keep one.



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 Post subject: Re: Japanese power plant
PostPosted: 26 Apr 2017, 09:37 
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Precisely.



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 Post subject: Re: Japanese power plant
PostPosted: 26 Apr 2017, 17:45 
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EuropeanAction wrote:
Precisely.

Good. Again.
But what will the future hold for energy supplies?



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 Post subject: Re: Japanese power plant
PostPosted: 26 Apr 2017, 20:26 
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Besoeker wrote:
EuropeanAction wrote:
Precisely.

Good. Again.
But what will the future hold for energy supplies?


I didn't need your endorsement. Your punctuation requires more attention, by the way. Never begin a sentence with "But". Must try harder.

Besoeker, you are like one of those irritating little children who fires off a long sequence of pointless questions one after the other. I am now very irritated by all that.

However, in answer to your very last question on the subject, I can tell you in all sincerity that I do not possess a crystal ball that looks into the future. Therefore, your question is a silly one.

This thread is in danger of being blocked.



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 Post subject: Re: Japanese power plant
PostPosted: 26 Apr 2017, 20:51 
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EuropeanAction wrote:

This thread is in danger of being blocked.

If you have nothing constructive to add, <snipped. In error> you might as well.



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 Post subject: Re: Japanese power plant
PostPosted: 26 Apr 2017, 22:25 
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it is being blocked because you have nothing further to contribute.



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