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 Post subject: Japanese power plant
PostPosted: 06 Feb 2017, 19:59 
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The nuclear power plant destroyed by the tsunami of 2011 is again leaking radiation at such levels that no one can go near it to effect containment of it.
Essentially, it's broke but we can't fix it is how this new leak is being portrayed.

Major nuclear power plant failures are rare. Three Mile Island, Chernobyl, and Fukushima are the only three that got world coverage in almost 40 years.
But people in general seem to treat this industry with suspicion or even fear. The Fukushima disaster is remembered for the neuclear power plant failure rather than the unrelated 20,000 fatalities.

UK nuclear is on the agenda but for decades successive governments did nothing because it was unpopular with the electorate, the geststion period for a new plant is longer than a government term in office. Eventually the message got through that we, Britain, need more generation capacity if we are to avoid blackouts like we had in the time of the miner's strike. Renewables are variable on availability. Fossil fuels produce CO2. So it doesn't seem like we have a lot of choice.

And it's a bit ironic that we import from France which is largely nuclear.



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 Post subject: Re: Japanese power plant
PostPosted: 09 Feb 2017, 08:38 
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Safety of Nuclear Power Reactors

From the outset, there has been a strong awareness of the potential hazard of both nuclear criticality and release of radioactive materials from generating electricity with nuclear power.
 
As in other industries, the design and operation of nuclear power plants aims to minimise the likelihood of accidents, and avoid major human consequences when they occur. 

There have been three major reactor accidents in the history of civil nuclear power – Three Mile Island, Chernobyl and Fukushima. One was contained without harm to anyone, the next involved an intense fire without provision for containment, and the third severely tested the containment, allowing some release of radioactivity. 

These are the only major accidents to have occurred in over 16,000 cumulative reactor-years of commercial nuclear power operation in 33 countries. 

The evidence over six decades shows that nuclear power is a safe means of generating electricity. The risk of accidents in nuclear power plants is low and declining. The consequences of an accident or terrorist attack are minimal compared with other commonly accepted risks. Radiological effects on people of any radioactive releases can be avoided.



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 Post subject: Re: Japanese power plant
PostPosted: 09 Feb 2017, 18:52 
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I agree with that. But I think there is a public perception issue of it being a hugely risky endeavour despite the actual stats to the contrary. Perhaps Hiroshima and Nagasaki has some bearing on that.
But coal has had vastly more fatalities than nuclear power.
Perhaps you can recall Aberfan?

I don't know which direction this will go. Nuclear has a couple of problems. Or maybe more.
Waste disposal is practical but politics get in the way. Yucca Mountain site was put on the back burner for example.

The other is the ability to react to fast changes in demand. Nuclear isn't the best for that. So, I think we will have to accept that there will be a mixture of technologies for now.

Just a comment in passing. Currently, 18:35, the grid is operating at full capacity including reserve.
Any glitch and we'd be facing blackouts like we had during the miners strikes in the seventies.

New nuclear is a solution but it won't happen overnight.



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 Post subject: Re: Japanese power plant
PostPosted: 09 Feb 2017, 19:10 
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I remember Aberfan clearly. I was serving at the Army Air Corps Centre at Middle Wallop at the time and a collection was made throughout the camp in 1965.

Also, my father was a Welsh coal miner in the Kent coal field so my family felt it very acutely.

This has nothing to do with my domestic situation, by the way. This is my response to your reference to Aberfan and how it affected me personally.

To a lot of people today, they would never have heard of Aberfan and the cruel deaths of all those schoolchildren.



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 Post subject: Re: Japanese power plant
PostPosted: 09 Feb 2017, 21:38 
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EuropeanAction wrote:
I remember Aberfan clearly. I was serving at the Army Air Corps Centre at Middle Wallop at the time and a collection was made throughout the camp in 1965.

Also, my father was a Welsh coal miner in the Kent coal field so my family felt it very acutely.

This has nothing to do with my domestic situation, by the way. This is my response to your reference to Aberfan and how it affected me personally.

To a lot of people today, they would never have heard of Aberfan and the cruel deaths of all those schoolchildren.

A truly dreadful tradegy.
I posted it just to show some of the casualities of mining are victims not involved in mining. But you knew that.

Not related to my domestic situation either.......
I've been down a coal mine. Once.
It was a very long time ago but two things/experiences have stuck with me. The absolute Stygian blackness. Turn off the helmet lamps and you dare not move. An experience like no other.

The other was the the utter chaos at end of shift when the miners wanted to get back to the surface.
I'd got done with what I could do and was ready to go. I was advised to wait until after shift change. A prior shift change stampede had resulted in two people being trampled to death.

It was a long time ago and since the coal mining industry has all but disappeared in UK there are few fatalaties now.
But your point remains valid. World wide, nuclear has the fewest.



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 Post subject: Re: Japanese power plant
PostPosted: 26 Feb 2017, 08:31 
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It's Sunday morning. Power demand is low.
The contribution from nuclear and wind is meeting more than 50% of that.
Combined cycle gas turbines, a further 20%. Currently coal is under 5%.
The rest is mainly imports.
We need to ramp up nuclear. Time is not on our side.



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 Post subject: Re: Japanese power plant
PostPosted: 04 Mar 2017, 08:55 
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... and you're the man to do it?



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 Post subject: Re: Japanese power plant
PostPosted: 04 Mar 2017, 18:20 
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EuropeanAction wrote:
... and you're the man to do it.

Not my field.
I'm an electrical engineer but you'll dispute that again and tell me I'm a plumber from Luton. And you'd still be wrong on both counts.
C'est la vie.



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 Post subject: Re: Japanese power plant
PostPosted: 04 Mar 2017, 20:50 
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Showing off with a foreign phrase chucked in at the end, does not impress. I know exactly what you are ... a bullshitter of the first order.

When I said "you're the man to do it", I was being sarcastic. You couldn't sort out a ****-up in a brewery.



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 Post subject: Re: Japanese power plant
PostPosted: 17 Apr 2017, 18:32 
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[quote="EuropeanAction"]Showing off with a foreign phrase chucked in at the end, does not impress. I know exactly what you are ... a bullshitter of the first order.

When I said "you're the man to do it", I was being sarcastic. You couldn't sort out a ****-up in a brewery.

Shame that you feel the need to resort to personal, unprovoked, and invalid insults on your own forum.

It is a serious issue and one that may affect the whole of UK (or whatever that becomes). Blackouts could be widespread. That isn't just personal opinion. There have been articles in various technical magazines and journals that have made the point about how close we are to the edge.

Governments have done little - it doesn't engender excitement in the electorate and wouldn't translate into more votes at the polling stations. Roll on Nov 7th.
The long and the short, we need to be getting on with it. Or should have been at least a decade ago.


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 Post subject: Re: Japanese power plant
PostPosted: 19 Apr 2017, 08:51 
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The world is full of serious issues. This is but only one of them.

The problem with people like you is that you are tunnel-visioned and resort to monomania.



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 Post subject: Re: Japanese power plant
PostPosted: 19 Apr 2017, 12:14 
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EuropeanAction wrote:
The world is full of serious issues. This is but only one of them.

The problem with people like you is that you are tunnel-visioned and resort to monomania.

People like me, eh? Tunnel vision, monomania? Bullshitter?

Trouble with you is that you are always going to find fault with what I post. If you cite any specific post of mine that you can show is bullshite, I will retract it and apologise.

I brought up the topic because it will potentially affect us all. Not just me or you. Power cuts are more than just about your lights going out. You can flush the loo - once. You can't refuel your car. Can't boil the kettle for a cup of tea or even get the water in the first place, mustn't open the fridge or freezer.....the list goes on

Critical facilities have UPS systems for back up but those have limited autonomy and you wouldn't want to lose power if you were having open heart surgery.

Yes, there are other serious issues in the world - 20,000 people a day die from starvation. Without power it wouldn't be so easy to plant crops, grow them, harvest them, process them, and distribute them to the needy



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 Post subject: Re: Japanese power plant
PostPosted: 19 Apr 2017, 17:44 
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WE'RE ALL DOOMED!

So what will the masses of the people do about it if the people we elect and are given imaginary powers do nothing?

They are more interested in their parliamentary seats and something called a "career" in politics.



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 Post subject: Re: Japanese power plant
PostPosted: 19 Apr 2017, 19:22 
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EuropeanAction wrote:
WE'RE ALL DOOMED!

So what will the masses of the people do about it if the people we elect and are given imaginary powers do nothing?

They are more interested in their parliamentary seats and something called a "career" in politics.

Good points and I don't think that there any easy answers. Certainly a bunch of MPs who, for the most part, have expertine in the power generating industry should the last people to dictate policy on it.

What then? A group of experts perhaps? But really, to be experts, they'd have to have had exposure to the power industry in some field or other. And potential bias.
Maybe entrepreneurs would be the way to go. They'd have to make a commercial success of it.

Whatever, the "do nothing" option isn't a viable strategy. Right now almost 60% of our energy consumption is from combined cycle gas turbines. Gas is a finite resource.



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 Post subject: Re: Japanese power plant
PostPosted: 20 Apr 2017, 13:15 
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First of all, you do not have a "bunch of MPs". It would be a group of MPs. A bunch of flowers, yes.

This is symptomatic of the Americanisation of our language, whereby "bunch" is becoming the collective noun for everything. We already have "I guess" instead of "I suppose".

That's got that off my chest.

You did not answer my question regarding what will the masses do about it. The thing is, the wealthy people who rule over us have their own agenda which does not involve "saving the planet". So you see, nothing will be done about it as a direct consequence. Ask Bill Gates now being trumpeted as a great philanthropist. What's he doing about it? Sweet Fanny Adams.



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 Post subject: Re: Japanese power plant
PostPosted: 21 Apr 2017, 13:16 
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EuropeanAction wrote:
First of all, you do not have a "bunch of MPs". It would be a group of MPs. A bunch of flowers, yes.

This is symptomatic of the Americanisation of our language, whereby "bunch" is becoming the collective noun for everything. We already have "I guess" instead of "I suppose".

That's got that off my chest.

You did not answer my question regarding what will the masses do about it. The thing is, the wealthy people who rule over us have their own agenda which does not involve "saving the planet". So you see, nothing will be done about it as a direct consequence. Ask Bill Gates now being trumpeted as a great philanthropist. What's he doing about it? Sweet Fanny Adams.

I used the word "bunch" intentionally to reflect the respect intended.

What will the masses do? Not a lot. Policy will, for the most part, be decided in the palace of Westminster.
Fossils wil run out. What can be done?

More nuclear power and more renewable energy systems perhaps. Both have hurdles.
Nuclear is slow to respomd to changes in energy demand. And it is not popular with the electorate.
Renewables are on availity. There's neither wind nor solar contribution on a calm, dark night. The variations could be levelled out with storage systems. We don't have that at anything remotely like utility level that would be required.



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 Post subject: Re: Japanese power plant
PostPosted: 21 Apr 2017, 13:44 
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The world is run by a few multinational interests, mainly financial. It is their agenda that runs the globe and decides on this and that.

Elected governments merely jump to attention and obey the wishes of this global elite.

One way out is to nationalise all utilities and free government of debt slavery, rendering control of the money supply to public control.



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 Post subject: Re: Japanese power plant
PostPosted: 21 Apr 2017, 14:28 
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EuropeanAction wrote:
One way out is to nationalise all utilities and free government of debt slavery, rendering control of the money supply to public control.

Do you think the public, in general, could exercise informed control of the utilities?



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 Post subject: Re: Japanese power plant
PostPosted: 22 Apr 2017, 10:32 
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Public ownership is the same as nationalisation.



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 Post subject: Re: Japanese power plant
PostPosted: 22 Apr 2017, 12:31 
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EuropeanAction wrote:
Public ownership is the same as nationalisation.
Yes. But who will actually run the businesses? Make the stragetic decisions?



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