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 Post subject: Animals and Islam
PostPosted: 29 Nov 2014, 22:20 
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CRUELTY TO ANIMALS IS AGAINST GOD

All of the Qur'an's 114 chapters except one begins with the phrase "Allah is merciful and compassionate." A Muslim is expected to recognise the brotherhood of man and should treat a non-Muslim as a brother. Showing compassion and charity, Muslims believe, is doing service to God. Therefore, it is written in the Qur'an "No man is a true believer unless he desires for his brother that which he desires for himself. God will not be affectionate to that man who is not affectionate to God's creatures. Assist any person oppressed whether he is Muslim or non-Muslim."

Mohammed repeatedly forbade cruelty to animals, saying in the Hadith popular tradition, "Whoever is kind to the creatures of God is kind to himself."

Similarly, Mohammed taught "A good deed done to a beast is as good as doing good to a human being; while an act of cruelty to a beast is as bad as an act of cruelty to a human being."

The Qur'an (6:38) explains that such benevolence flows directly from God: "There is not an animal on Earth, nor a bird that flies on it's wings, but they are communities like you."

The Qur'an does permit meat-eating, but it also encourages healthful foods (which, many Muslims conclude, does not include animal products). Given these traditions, many Shi'ite Muslims and the Islamic mystics, such as the Sufis, see vegetarianism as the Islamic ideal and choose this diet.

Extract from "A History of God" by Karen Armstrong



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 Post subject: Re: Animals and Islam
PostPosted: 30 Nov 2014, 10:10 
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Humane slaughter under Islam

While Islam permits eating meat, it gives instructions to ensure humane slaughter, with as little pain to the victim as possible:

God's Messenger(s) was reported as saying: 'Allah Who is Blessed and Exalted, has prescribed benevolence toward everything {and has ordained that everything be done in a good way}; so, when you must kill a living being, do it in the best manner and, when you slaughter an animal, you should {use the best method and} sharpen your knife so as to cause the animal as little pain as possible. (Narrated by Shaddad bin Aus. Muslim; Vol. 2, Chapter 11; Section on 'Slaying'; 10:739, verse 151. Also 'Robson' (Ref. No. 15); p. 872. Also recorded in Riyad. (Ref. No. 28); Hadith No. 643; p. 131).

The Messenger of Allah was heard forbidding to keep waiting a quadruped or any other animal for slaughter. (Bukhari. Also Muslim; Vol. 2, Chapter 11; Section on 'Slaying'; 10:739; verse 152. Also 'Robson' (Ref. NO. 15), p. 872).
The Prophet(s) forbade all living creatures to be slaughtered while tied up
and bound. (id (Ref. No. 46); Hadith No. 4817; p. 1079).

The Holy Prophet(s) said to a man who was sharpening his knife in the presence of the animal: 'Do you intend inflicting death on the animal twice - once by sharpening the knife within its sight, and once by cutting its throat?' (Al-Furu Min-al-Kafi Lil-Kulini; 6:230).

Hazrat Imam Ali says: "Do not slaughter sheep in the presence of other sheep, or any animal in the presence of other animals." (id (for Hazrat Ali see Ref. No. 4).

Hazrat 'Omar once saw a man denying a sheep, which he was going to slaughter, a satiating measure of water to drink. He gave the man a beating with his lash and told him: "Go, water it properly at the time of its death, you knave!" (Reported by Ibn Sirin about Hazrat 'Omar and recorded in Badae al-Sande; 6:2811).

If animals have been subjected to cruelties in their breeding, transport, slaughter, or in their general welfare, meat from them is considered impure and unlawful to eat (Haram). The flesh of animals killed by cruel methods (Al-Muthiah) is carrion (Al-Mujaththamah). Even if these animals have been slaughtered in the strictest Islamic manner, if cruelties were inflicted on them otherwise, their flesh is still forbidden (Haram) food:



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 Post subject: Re: Animals and Islam
PostPosted: 30 Nov 2014, 14:58 
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No one said it is unique to Islam. So that point is irrelevant.

The rest consisted of photos of your *****. Again, irrelevant (and personal).



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 Post subject: Re: Animals and Islam
PostPosted: 30 Nov 2014, 15:34 
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[quote="Besoeker"]
Relevant to the extent that kindness to animals is does not require religion.


Still irrelevant because the sub-forum is titled Against Animal Cruelty. No religion mentioned there.

This thread, however, concerns itself exclusively with the subject of Animals and Islam.

As such, your ***** or your atheistic inclinations have no place here.


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 Post subject: Re: Animals and Islam
PostPosted: 30 Nov 2014, 15:54 
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That's right. This thread is not titled Animals and Atheism.

Or "This is My *****".

Get back on topic. Animals and Islam.



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 Post subject: Re: Animals and Islam
PostPosted: 30 Nov 2014, 16:00 
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[quote="Besoeker"]
I know.
That's why I posted what I posted.


Which is irrelevant to Islam.

If you want to bring in atheistic views then go to Atheists' Corner.

If you want to discuss your ***** then seek urgent psychiatric treatment.

This thread is about Islam. The sub-forum is more general.


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 Post subject: Re: Animals and Islam
PostPosted: 30 Nov 2014, 16:51 
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I found your posts quoting Islamic Scriptures on animals, most enlightening, Admin.


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 Post subject: Re: Animals and Islam
PostPosted: 30 Nov 2014, 17:09 
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ContentedKat wrote:
I found your posts quoting Islamic Scriptures on animals, most enlightening, Admin.


That's the point to a more responsible forum, in my view.

You won't get anything like this on DF/BDF where ignorance and bigotry is rife under the stewardship of amoral atheists.

The truth regarding true authentic Islam will out. Even against the worst efforts of the demented Jackie Holden.

Only a warped mind would claim Muslims ("Islamists") worship the Devil.

There will be more on this thread.



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 Post subject: Re: Animals and Islam
PostPosted: 30 Nov 2014, 19:51 
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EuropeanAction wrote:
CRUELTY TO ANIMALS IS AGAINST GOD

All of the Qur'an's 114 chapters except one begins with the phrase "Allah is merciful and compassionate." A Muslim is expected to recognise the brotherhood of man and should treat a non-Muslim as a brother. Showing compassion and charity, Muslims believe, is doing service to God. Therefore, it is written in the Qur'an "No man is a true believer unless he desires for his brother that which he desires for himself. God will not be affectionate to that man who is not affectionate to God's creatures. Assist any person oppressed whether he is Muslim or non-Muslim."

Mohammed repeatedly forbade cruelty to animals, saying in the Hadith popular tradition, "Whoever is kind to the creatures of God is kind to himself."

Similarly, Mohammed taught "A good deed done to a beast is as good as doing good to a human being; while an act of cruelty to a beast is as bad as an act of cruelty to a human being."

The Qur'an (6:38) explains that such benevolence flows directly from God: "There is not an animal on Earth, nor a bird that flies on it's wings, but they are communities like you."

The Qur'an does permit meat-eating, but it also encourages healthful foods (which, many Muslims conclude, does not include animal products). Given these traditions, many Shi'ite Muslims and the Islamic mystics, such as the Sufis, see vegetarianism as the Islamic ideal and choose this diet.

Extract from "A History of God" by Karen Armstrong


... and now back to topic. Discuss, Besoeker.



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 Post subject: Re: Animals and Islam
PostPosted: 30 Nov 2014, 19:56 
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EuropeanAction wrote:
Humane slaughter under Islam

While Islam permits eating meat, it gives instructions to ensure humane slaughter, with as little pain to the victim as possible:

God's Messenger(s) was reported as saying: 'Allah Who is Blessed and Exalted, has prescribed benevolence toward everything {and has ordained that everything be done in a good way}; so, when you must kill a living being, do it in the best manner and, when you slaughter an animal, you should {use the best method and} sharpen your knife so as to cause the animal as little pain as possible. (Narrated by Shaddad bin Aus. Muslim; Vol. 2, Chapter 11; Section on 'Slaying'; 10:739, verse 151. Also 'Robson' (Ref. No. 15); p. 872. Also recorded in Riyad. (Ref. No. 28); Hadith No. 643; p. 131).

The Messenger of Allah was heard forbidding to keep waiting a quadruped or any other animal for slaughter. (Bukhari. Also Muslim; Vol. 2, Chapter 11; Section on 'Slaying'; 10:739; verse 152. Also 'Robson' (Ref. NO. 15), p. 872).
The Prophet(s) forbade all living creatures to be slaughtered while tied up
and bound. (id (Ref. No. 46); Hadith No. 4817; p. 1079).

The Holy Prophet(s) said to a man who was sharpening his knife in the presence of the animal: 'Do you intend inflicting death on the animal twice - once by sharpening the knife within its sight, and once by cutting its throat?' (Al-Furu Min-al-Kafi Lil-Kulini; 6:230).

Hazrat Imam Ali says: "Do not slaughter sheep in the presence of other sheep, or any animal in the presence of other animals." (id (for Hazrat Ali see Ref. No. 4).

Hazrat 'Omar once saw a man denying a sheep, which he was going to slaughter, a satiating measure of water to drink. He gave the man a beating with his lash and told him: "Go, water it properly at the time of its death, you knave!" (Reported by Ibn Sirin about Hazrat 'Omar and recorded in Badae al-Sande; 6:2811).

If animals have been subjected to cruelties in their breeding, transport, slaughter, or in their general welfare, meat from them is considered impure and unlawful to eat (Haram). The flesh of animals killed by cruel methods (Al-Muthiah) is carrion (Al-Mujaththamah). Even if these animals have been slaughtered in the strictest Islamic manner, if cruelties were inflicted on them otherwise, their flesh is still forbidden (Haram) food:


Exposing the lies of Islamophobes.



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 Post subject: Re: Animals and Islam
PostPosted: 01 Dec 2014, 20:45 
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Animals have consciousness. They also have feelings and emotions.

Many passages from the Qur'an Majeed and Ahadith state that all animals are endowed with spirit and mind and "…there is ample evidence in the Qur'an Majeed to suggest that animals' consciousness of spirit and mind is of a degree higher than mere instinct and intuition. We are told in the Qur'an Majeed that animals have a cognisance of their Creator and, hence, they pay their obeisance to Him by adoration and worship: Seest thou not that it is Allah Whose praises are celebrated by all beings in the heavens and on earth, and by the birds with extended wings? Each one knows its prayer and psalm, And Allah is aware of what they do. (Qur'an 24:41).

It is worth noting the statement that 'each one knows its prayer and psalm'. The execution of a voluntary act, performed consciously and intentionally, requires a faculty higher than that of instinct and intuition. Lest some people should doubt that animals could have such a faculty, the following verse points out that it is human ignorance that prevents them from understanding this phenomenon: The seven heavens and the earth and all things therein declare His glory. There is not a thing but celebrates His adoration; and yet ye mankind! ye understand not how do they declare His glory…(Qur'an 17:44).

The following verse tells us how all the elements of nature and all the animal kingdom function in harmony with God's laws; it is only some humans who infringe and, thus, bring affliction on themselves. The Qur'an Majeed dwells on this theme repeatedly to emphasize the point that man should bring himself into harmony with nature, according to the laws of God -- as all other creation does: Seest thou not that unto Allah payeth adoration all things that are in the heavens and on earth -- the sun, the moon, the stars, the mountains, the trees, the animals, and a large number among mankind? However, there are many (humans) who do not and deserve chastisement…(Qur'an 22:18).

A Dutch team of scientists has found scientific evidence of mental suffering in animals. They have discovered that, like the human brain, an animal's brain too releases a substance called 'Endorphin' to cope with emotional distress and pain, caused by frustration or conflict. This substance is 100 times more powerful than morphine. (This was reported in the newsletter of Compassion in World Farming Agscene, August 1985, 20 Lavant Street, Petersfield, Hants, England).



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 Post subject: Re: Animals and Islam
PostPosted: 02 Mar 2016, 21:14 
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The above article from the newsletter of Compassion in World Farming best illustrates the points I had been making in my last posts on the thread Eating Dog Meat.

The opening passage: "Many passages from the Qur'an Majeed and Ahadith state that all animals are endowed with spirit and mind and "…there is ample evidence in the Qur'an Majeed to suggest that animals' consciousness of spirit and mind is of a degree higher than mere instinct and intuition".



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 Post subject: Re: Animals and Islam
PostPosted: 03 Mar 2016, 00:59 
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I abhor cruelty to animals. Even though I am but a mere worm according to you.



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 Post subject: Re: Animals and Islam
PostPosted: 03 Mar 2016, 08:36 
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Besoeker wrote:
I abhor cruelty to animals. Even though I am but a mere worm according to you.


You are becoming boring, worm. Either debate and discuss the issues or clear off.

The topic is Animals and Islam.



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 Post subject: Re: Animals and Islam
PostPosted: 03 Mar 2016, 09:29 
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EuropeanAction wrote:
The topic is Animals and Islam.

The topic title, your topic title, is "CRUELTY TO ANIMALS IS AGAINST GOD".

I was in Kayseri which, as you will obviously know, is in Central Anatolia. A goat was tied up outside the zinc mill ready to be sacrificed when the mill got running. It did and the goat was - in a most cruel manner. The usual cut through the jugular except the knife used wasn't fit for purpose. The butcher, if you can call him that, was sawing away at the throat for minutes and the animal was clearly in very great distress. I found it rather nauseating.

By way of contrast, I was still there during one of the religious days when animals, mainly cattle, were being slaughtered on the street. One swift stroke with the right blade was all it took for the beast to drop to its knees. Still not pleasant to observe but I have read reports that it is less distressing for the animal than the captive bolt method. I don't know. Not my area of expertise.

Is it yours?



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 Post subject: Re: Animals and Islam
PostPosted: 03 Mar 2016, 11:07 
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I recommend a book,
A Critical Study of Electrical Stunning
and The Jewish Method of Slaughter
(Shechita)
by Rabbi Solomon David Sassoon.


It is the same with the Muslim method (Halal).

It provides compelling evidence that religious slaughter is more humane than electrical stunning.

Is it my area of expertise? I would not claim that but having read much that is both for and against, I think I have arrived at an informed and objective position on the subject.

Only a trained expert is permitted to slaughter animals according to both Shechita and Halal rules. It must be as painless as possible.



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 Post subject: Re: Animals and Islam
PostPosted: 03 Mar 2016, 12:19 
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EuropeanAction wrote:

Is it my area of expertise? I would not claim that but having read much that is both for and against, I think I have arrived at an informed and objective position on the subject.

Nor my area of expertise as I said, but having actually observed both, I think I have a valid opinion to offer.

The goat suffering was of concern even had it been a single isolated incident. But it wasn't. Skilled slaughterers may get the job done with the least amount of suffering. Regrettably, not all are skilled. Whether electrical stunning is more humane than the religios methods may be debatable but it offers consistency.



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 Post subject: Re: Animals and Islam
PostPosted: 03 Mar 2016, 12:36 
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Besoeker wrote:
Nor my area of expertise as I said, but having actually observed both, I think I have a valid opinion to offer.
The goat suffering was of concern even had it been a single isolated incident. But it wasn't. Skilled slaughterers may get the job done with the least amount of suffering. Regrettably, not all are skilled. Whether electrical stunning is more humane than the religious methods may be debatable but it offers consistency.


I have read the best research and the views of scientists and other experts and the overwhelming evidence is that the religious method of slaughter is far more humane than electrical stunning. If done correctly, the animal feels virtually nothing and it loses consciousness almost immediately. The knife used must be razor sharp without any nicks along it. Both Shechita and Halal abide by very strict rules.

The incident with the goat was not Halal if the animal suffered. It was not religious slaughter.

I think I can safely say I am more informed on the subject than you, despite your pomposity and reluctance to confess to ignorance.

But then you hate religion, regarding it as "superstitious claptrap" and I suggest you hate Islam in particular.



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 Post subject: Re: Animals and Islam
PostPosted: 03 Mar 2016, 12:51 
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EuropeanAction wrote:

I think I can safely say I am more informed on the subject than you, despite your pomposity and reluctance to confess to ignorance.

<snipped, unproven claim>



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 Post subject: Re: Animals and Islam
PostPosted: 03 Mar 2016, 13:00 
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You are an ignorant man. Admit it.

As you don't know what you are talking about, the thread is locked.



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