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 Post subject: Corporatism.
PostPosted: 04 Sep 2014, 21:20 

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Don't know if this is the correct place to post this but I was wondering what people think of the idea of a corporatist state and whether it would be viable on a pan European scale. I have looked at the debates regarding Fascism and thought that the fascist creed had the corporatist state at the centre of it's ideology. Where it failed was to drift away from this and replace it with an aggressive form of nationalism which only weakens the makeup of society by restricting who belongs to that society. For me what is important is to have a strong corporatist state where all serves the wellbeing of that society and adheres to the ethos of society which would be debated by all in that society. The wealth that is collectively created by all of us would be put to social use and not either line the pockets of rich bankers and to ensure that all works for the benefit of society.

I know I'm rambling so I'll stop there's more that I could say regarding religion, race, inequalities, elitism but I'll leave it for another time and place.


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 Post subject: Re: Corporatism.
PostPosted: 04 Sep 2014, 21:27 
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Fascism was nationalistic. Too much, some say, but the Corporate State was at the heart of it.

After the war, Oswald Mosley said fascism was far too nationalistic and could create antagonism between nations.

He adopted the idea of Europe a Nation in order to prevent future wars.

Today, we are still divided with separate nation-states ... with an outside power (the United States) clamoring for war with Russia.

Both Napoleon and Hitler failed ... and so will Obama.



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 Post subject: Re: Corporatism.
PostPosted: 05 Sep 2014, 13:57 

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The American financial elite backed by Obama will lead the world to nuclear Armageddon if the peoples of Europe do not rise against such insanity. The people of America also needs to recognise the insanity that their leaders are preparing for them and their children and do something to stop this happening.

If Russia was extending their military might outwards across Europe and into the USA as the USA is doing to Russia then I'm sure their would be a clamour from the liberal press.

What is needed is a perspective which can go beyond nationalism and engage the idea of a European identity which is a positive fusion of all current identities embedded in a corporatist state. I think that a corporatist state is the only alternative to disintegrating states as constituted.


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 Post subject: Re: Corporatism.
PostPosted: 08 Sep 2014, 10:49 
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I agree, tdave. We need to transcend the nationalistic mindset to a more geopolitical view.

We need to extend our patriotism on a more continental basis.

Europe with Russia combined.



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 Post subject: Re: Corporatism.
PostPosted: 17 Sep 2014, 16:48 

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Can one be a supporter of a corporatist state and still be a socialist?


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 Post subject: Re: Corporatism.
PostPosted: 17 Sep 2014, 17:33 
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tdave wrote:
Can one be a supporter of a corporatist state and still be a socialist?


It was called the Corporate State and it was the core of fascist state theory. Fascism was a theory of the state.

You can admire aspects of the Corporate State, as we all do.

But European Socialism transcends all that. Fascism was far too nationalistic but European Socialism embraces all of Europe.

We are not resurrecting fascism. That would be stupidity. But ideas like Occupational Franchise can be adopted by socialism.



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 Post subject: Re: Corporatism.
PostPosted: 17 Sep 2014, 21:13 

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I'm pleased to see that you reject the idea of resurrecting fascism especially in the German form of national socialism. WE have seen what happens when radical nationalism becomes the dominant ideological form. Disaster. For me the importance of the corporate state is that it embodies an organisational principle which all sections of society can adhere to and can provide some real concrete benefits free from liberal ideology of the so called free citizen who uses his/her vote every five years.

The occupational franchise does provide the basis of a more efficient society and a more involved society than the present one. To ensure the maximum benefit then it does need to go beyond national organisational forms and the occupational franchise needs to include all European citizens such as transport workers, building workers etc.

My greatest fear is that states are imploding, fragmenting the citizens of these states are increasingly becoming alienated, adrift self obsessed to the point of self harm through drugs etc. Failing the working class revolution then there has to be something to hold society together and to me the corporate state can do this. That is if there is enough time before the forces off fragmentation start to make their presence felt in the central European states such as the UK, Germany, Italy, France.


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 Post subject: Re: Corporatism.
PostPosted: 18 Sep 2014, 05:09 
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tdave wrote:
I'm pleased to see that you reject the idea of resurrecting fascism especially in the German form of national socialism. WE have seen what happens when radical nationalism becomes the dominant ideological form. Disaster. For me the importance of the corporate state is that it embodies an organisational principle which all sections of society can adhere to and can provide some real concrete benefits free from liberal ideology of the so called free citizen who uses his/her vote every five years.

The occupational franchise does provide the basis of a more efficient society and a more involved society than the present one. To ensure the maximum benefit then it does need to go beyond national organisational forms and the occupational franchise needs to include all European citizens such as transport workers, building workers etc.

My greatest fear is that states are imploding, fragmenting the citizens of these states are increasingly becoming alienated, adrift self obsessed to the point of self harm through drugs etc. Failing the working class revolution then there has to be something to hold society together and to me the corporate state can do this. That is if there is enough time before the forces off fragmentation start to make their presence felt in the central European states such as the UK, Germany, Italy, France.

Raven Thomson's book, The Coming Corporate State, is a blueprint for an organisation of the state. However, the principles do not require a fascist base.

I am a great believer in seeking out the best points in all political systems, including communism, and then forming a synthesis. This was also Mosley's approach. Nothing should be set in stone.

The occupational franchise is one of those ideas that can lead to a better, more efficient, form of democracy.



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